If you’ve never heard of an “infinite banking strategy”, today is your lucky today! Chris Miles is on the Profit Masters right now to help you figure out new ways to get some extra money coming in. These are strategies you may never have considered before because it really goes against all of the traditional things we’ve learned when it comes to banking, investing, and retirement funds. That’s why they call Chris the anti-financial advisor. He’s up here turning the industry on its head with some of the things he’s doing out here.
Since retiring in 2006 – yes, that’s right, I said RETIRED, he’s popped back onto the scene to teach people like us how to do what he’s doing to create these strong streams of passive income. There are ways to make key investments with your mutual fund and even your life insurance that can get you to true financial freedom. These are the kinds of investments that pay off, and Chris shares the different ways you can use to them to finally declare your own financial freedom.
I’m very excited about today’s episode because Chris is part of the Collective Genius Mastermind group I’m in. He and I have learned a lot from each other over the past year, and I really value the way he encourages us all to challenge the things we’ve been taught. Ignorance is expensive – you’ll hear us say that a lot on this episode, and it can really benefit you both financially and spiritually to get a fresh, new perspective on the way we’re doing things. Real estate investors, like all entrepreneurs, can get comfortable in the routine. But to keep that entrepreneurial fire burning, you’ve got to learn new perspectives and try new things. Part of what makes our businesses so great is the journey of learning we get to go on every day. So tune in right now and learn something new from Chris Miles!
3:00 – Meet Chris Miles!
4:25 – Why did Chris quit being a financial advisor?
6:01 – What do Chris’ ideal clients look like?
7:35 – Who inspires Chris the most?
9:40 – The moment Chris realized real estate could make him financially free
15:05 – Part 1 – What happens when you start to question everything you think you know?
17:03 – Part 2 – It opens a door to a whole new world of opportunities!
19:15 – What investment strategies are working for Chris right now?
21:00 – What is “relationship capital”?
22:48 – The truth about mutual funds
24:34 – Chris’ strategy for investing with life insurance
31:14 – The biggest challenges Chris is facing in the market right now
33:48 – The biggest lesson Chris ever learned
35:09 – What would Chris change about his past if he could?
36:28 – Chris’ favorite motivational quote
38:14 – The highs and lows of being an entrepreneur
41:02 – Does Chris get 8 hours of sleep every night?
41:12 – What’s Chris’ morning routine?
42:17 – What is Chris most grateful for right now?
45:08 – Chris has mentors for everything, from fitness to real estate
46:36 – Hope is what gets Chris up every morning
48:13 – Send Chris a message email@example.com
Links and Resources
Money Ripples Podcast with Chris Miles
Chris Miles Money Show with Chris Miles
Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
Who Took My Money by Robert Kiyosaki
Three Feet from Gold by Greg Reid and Sharon Lechter
Never Give Up by Donald Trump
Cory: What is going on my party people? My name is Cory Boatright. I am your host and founder of Real Estate Investing Profit Masters podcast series, and I am excited to spend some time with you. I have a really cool guest today. He actually just recently joined our mastermind group, Collective Genius, which if you haven’t heard about that, go check that out. Definitely make sure you check out what’s going on there.His name is Chris Miles. You might have heard of him, he has an actual podcast called Money Ripples. He teaches you on really how to be the bank, on really figuring out a way that you can use to get extra money coming in that you may have not considered. Kind of considered the anti-guru on what he teaches, the anti-financial advisor on how he teaches you to use your money, and you’re going to learn some things today that I think you’re going to go, “Aha, I never thought about that.” So, make sure that you take good notes because it is going to be a good one today.
Also make sure you download your Down and Dirty Ultimate Real Estate Investing Quick Start Guide by going to and texting the word PROFIT to 38470. Automagically, you will get the link for that PDF. Thousands and thousands of folks have downloaded it and had great things to say. Also, if you’re interested in learning about wholesale coaching, we do about a hundred of those a year and really got some good system and process in place on how that’s working to get out of your business so you can have the business work whenever you are sleeping, which is cool. Go to coryscoaching.com and apply there.
All right, here is Mr. Chris Miles. Chris, you there?
Chris: I’m here.
Cory: Hey, what’s going on?
Chris: Hey, great, Cory. How are you doing, man?
Cory: I live your life, what does your background say?
Chris: Live your life now not tomorrow.
Cory: I love it, man. How are you doing?
Chris: I’m living life, man. I guess I’m living it for now, not tomorrow.
Cory: You and those seven kids. Do you have 7 kids or 20?
Chris: It’s close, it’s eight, six of my own, two with my wife that she brought to the marriage, so blended family, it’s like The Brady Bunch, but there’s no room for Alice.
Cory: Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to be here. We talk normally a lot about real estate investing. We have service providers that pop on, we have some other folks that come on that serve other real estate investing side of working with investors, either from investing from their IRA or also, I know that one thing you’re specializing in is infinite banking strategy. You’re deemed like the anti-financial guru, right?
Cory: I love for you to take the time to really just say who you are and what is your ideal client, who you’re looking for, and then we’ll roll into some other questions.
Chris: Yeah, for sure. Like you said, I’m an anti-financial guru, anti-financial advisor because I’m against mutual funds, I’m against doing all the traditional stuff you’ve been taught to do because 17 years ago, I started out doing that. I was a traditional financial advisor, told people to save everything, spend nothing, basically live a little crappy life until hopefully that someday you might have enough for retirement.
After doing that for four years, I realized after looking at people that had advised for 20 years or so that they weren’t any better off, really. They weren’t living the life that they thought they would. It was this massive over-promise, under-deliver type of scenario when it comes to financial advising.
I left that. I’ll never go back to it again and that’s where, in 2006, I started into things like real estate investing and whatnot, and actually was able to retire in 2006. I quit being a financial advisor so then I could actually do what works, which is the opposite of what they always tell you to do. That’s what I’ve been doing ever since.
I came out of retirement in 2007 to start teaching some of this stuff. I even went through the recession, went from millionaire to upside-down millionaire. So, I had to dig out of over a million dollar debt holder in the recession, but I was able to come back.
About a little over two years ago, I was able to retire once again and do it better this time around. It’s a lot safer, much more stable streams of income, plus I have more kids so it’s more of an uphill battle between the debt and the children. I had to really build that passive income up quite a bit more, but here I am just loving life and teach people how to do what I do every day.
My main clients are really the ones that want to challenge the status quo. I worked with dentists and doctors. Even them, they’re like, “I could put my own money into my stuff, but I know I could be doing something better with this. I want to get my money actually working for me, so that I don’t have to work so hard for my money. I work because I want to.” Even if you love your work, you can work if you want to not because you have to. That’s the kind of people I have been working with. They see people that want to do what I’m doing right now.
Cory: It’s pretty interesting because, again, we deal with a lot of real estate investors and you got involved with real estate investing, but where you have put you all your emphasis and focus is on creating this better future, if you will, a better future for all of this investing that you’re doing. Instead of saying, “I want to make 3% or 5% in the bank for many years,” you actually create momentum with the investing strategies that you teach.
I want to get into that. I know that’s what many people are wanting to hear right now is what are those strategies, but I want to know who were some of your influences that have really got you to where you are today?
Chris: There’s been a few. For example, I remember starting out, Robert Kiyosaki, of course, Rich Dad Poor Dad, when he gets to challenge it, which was really weird because I was a financial advisor. I was proclaiming that I was teaching what he taught, which he’s completely against the stuff that we teach as a financial advisor. I thought, “Oh, yeah, I teach this stuff,” but it wasn’t until I met some guys who were more local to the area where I live here in Utah.
One actually has since passed on, a guy named Les McGuire was a guy that was a business owner, he actually did things with financial planning, but he was also an investor. I learned a lot of stuff from him doing a radio show that he did locally. It totally rocked my world to the point that it really inspired me to quit my job as a financial advisor. Even at the height of my practice, I should say job because it was my own practice, but it got me to quit. I was like, “I’m done. I will never teach about money again. I can’t stand integrity and teach this crap. I’m just going to do mortgages as a mortgage broker and then I’m going to teach ballroom dancing at the local university.” That’s basically what I did for a few months, I was just doing that. They were a big influence on me.
There are so many others, too. There have just been people on the way that have influenced that. They really got my foundation started, understanding real principles, not just of investing but of money and wealth in general that made making money easier. Even outside of the typical investment space. Even in business space, too.
Cory: It’s pretty eclectic, ballroom dancing, mentor, but there’s something there that had been an aha moment, there was something there that probably opened your eyes like, “Wow, there’s a better way.” Can you share a little bit about that before we start getting into really what we call your profit master investing strategy is or how you’re helping others achieve their dreams and goals?
Chris: Yeah, go back with me a little bit. In 2005, I was questioning some of the stuff I was teaching, I realized that in order for people to retire based on what I was offering with mutual funds, different insurance products, or whatever, I would have to fluff numbers, I would have to lie. I would have to say either inflation’s a lot lower, taxes aren’t as high, the rate of return might be better than it is in reality, all that stuff.
I remember it was right after Christmas and I called up a guy that I actually trained to be a financial advisor but quit. He just quit four months prior to do real estate investing with his dad. I told him, “Good luck with that. Let’s see how you do and if you come crawling back asking to work with me again.” Four months later, I talked to him. I was like, “How’s everything going with that whole real estate thing that you’re doing?” He said, “Oh, man, it’s awesome. My dad, he’s a professor at a university. He’s doubled his income doing the real estate stuff just in the last four months.”
Cory: That was in 2005.
Chris: This is 2005, yeah, of course.
Cory: Yeah, but it was the beginning.
Chris: Yeah, it was obviously taking off. You didn’t have to be a rocket scientist to make a lot of money in real estate in 2005 and 2006.
Cory: You could […], right?
Chris: Exactly. He told me that. He wasn’t even doing a lot of investing, they were just doing hard money lending and things like that. I was like, “Shut up, that’s not true. Come on.” At the time, I was moving away from mutual funds. I was teaching people how to trade stocks and options, so I was a stock trader, too.
Cory: I was a day trader for about nine months. I traded blue-chip stocks.
Chris: I used to teach people how to swing trade and stuff.
Cory: Oh, yeah, I don’t miss a day. There are three and four monitors and news. I don’t miss it.
Chris: No, it might be way more work than doing real estate investing.
Cory: Yeah, a lot of stress.
Chris: We went back and forth on, “What’s better? Stocks or real estate?” Finally, he just stopped me, he said, “Chris, what principles are you teaching your clients right now?” I’m like, “What do you mean by principles? What is that? Are you talking about rule 72, compound interest?” He’s like, “Not even close. All right, let me ask you this question, maybe this will help you out. How many of your clients are truly financially free off of the investments you’ve been recommending?” and I thought, “Okay, I’ve got some retired doctors,” and now they’re still watching CNN because they’re freaking out—anybody who watches CNN will freak out—it doesn’t matter how much money you have in stocks. It’s like a communist news network. So I’m like, “None of my clients are financially free if you think about actually feeling free.” He’s like, “Okay, good job.”
“Let me ask you this, Chris. If anybody’s got this investing stuff figured out, shouldn’t it be you guys that are financial advisors? How many of you are financially free? Not off of the commissions you’re earning from selling the stuff that hasn’t worked, but actually from doing the investments yourself?” I thought a little bit, I was like, “None, maybe one guy, I could think of that might be,” and I found out a few years later he wasn’t, because once he got fired from that company, he was scrambling trying to make money. It was all facade for him.
He’s like, “There’s your problem.” I’m like, “Okay, none of us are financially free, it hasn’t worked. That’s proven. I can’t argue with evidence. Fine, tell me the answer.” He’s like, “I’m not going to tell you the answer because I don’t think you’ll even believe it, I don’t think you’ll even do anything.” I’m like, “Okay, I’m going to break your kneecaps, seriously, tell me the answer. You got me admitting I’m wrong, you give me something.” He’s like, “All right, if you’re serious, I really don’t think you are, go get another book by Robert Kiyosaki called Who Took My Money?” which basically rips into mutual funds. He’s like, “And listen to this radio show that’s on every morning here locally on this AM station. Listen to this radio show where these guys were millionaires teaching about investing in stuff.” That’s how I started.
I got the book that day. I got the audiobook, so three hours later I was done. Got that, I was like, “Okay, I get it because I’ve been teaching stock trading, I know the mutual funds suck.” I even stopped selling mutual funds that year. Then, of course, I started listening to that radio show and they weren’t even teaching strategy, they were just teaching about principles like dollars follow value and those things, what’s the essence of what makes an investment or anything for that matter pay you, what makes people wealthy.
I listened to that for a few months, then finally went to one of their events. That’s when I realized, they’re saying, “Yeah, you’re in it for the long haul,” but how long is the long haul when the market goes down? They say, “High-risk rates, high return,” how is that even possible? All this stuff.
That’s what got me to shift. I was like, “Yeah, who would teach that crap? Oh, I’m probably the one out of 100 people, the one financial advisor in this room.” That’s when I quit. That was my breaking point. I was like, “Okay, I can now see it, I don’t know exactly what investments to do, but I can now see that what I’m teaching is wrong,” and that opened me up for a whole new world.
They did real estate investing and stuff, hard money deals, and whatnot but it was that moment between what my friend had brought up those three key questions of, “What principles do you teach? How many of your clients are financially free? How many of you are financially free?” that got me to totally question everything that I’ve been taught.
Cory: It’s so interesting. I used to sell Kirby home-cleaning systems in my teens. I used to knock a hundred doors, put on three demonstrations, and sell one $1600 home-cleaning system. I got really good at doing this to the point where I could sell two and sometimes three in a day and I was getting awards selling three in a day. There’s one point where I stopped and I remember very clearly when it was. There’s a lady, a very old woman that loved this home-cleaning system. She loved everything, she was just ready to just write a check and I lost faith in my product. I stopped believing in my product that day.
There were some reasons that led up to why I was at that but it was a breaking point. Whenever she was ready to go, old woman, it shook a little bit when she moved, she was happy cleaning but it was heavy. I just knew that what I was selling her wasn’t what she really needed. There was this point where you lose faith in your product or you lose faith in your sales. Then it just comes down to that aha moment where it’s like, “Okay, now what am I going to do?” But in your case, you had another alternative that opened up. You saw another path that was actually the better path and that lead you to not only doing what you’re doing right now helping others, but it helped you with your own life.
Chris: Yeah, it opened up a whole new door because it’s like when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. That’s what happened because I remember just that same December, I went to see my dad. He’s like, “All right, tell me, what can I do?” He was, at that time, about just his early 60s and he had hoped to retire right after Y2K. Everything was going roaring in the 90s, he’s like, “If this keeps going like it is, I’ll be able to retire in the early 2000s,” and then he couldn’t. The market tanked.
Now it’s almost 2006 by this point and he’s like, “What do I have?” I remember as a financial advisor in front of mind thinking, “The only asset you really have, you only have a few hundred thousand in your 401(k), you’ve got a paid-off house. The one thing you guys have is a paid-off home, so you can use the equity to create more cash flow. Then maybe, if you can create better returns then that can be good.” It’s like, “Right, let’s do it. What do I do?” I’m like, “I don’t know, because if I’m honest with myself, anything I put you in, even if they’re guaranteed to not lose money, they still may not make enough to beat the interest rate you’re paying on your home.” I was like, “I can’t guarantee it,” and I was lost.
Then all of a sudden, when I pushed my friends like, “Tell me what are these strategies you guys are doing?” He’s like, “Hey, some of us are making 2% a month, 3% a month on these hard money deals,” they were pretty rich. There’s a reason why it didn’t last forever. It was some of those returns, but they’re paying pretty nicely.
All of a sudden I was like, “Wait, 2% a month.” I do the math, I’m like, “Holy cow, you can actually retire off of this.” It just blew this whole new world like Aladdin. It’s like, “A whole new world.” It’s coming like that, It was so cool. That’s a funny thing. I got excited. people didn’t even know what changed about me. They just knew something changed. They’re like, “What’s going on? You seem different.” I was like, “Oh, man, if I just told you half of what I’m learning, it will blow your mind.” That’s how it started.
Cory: Yeah. What is your investing strategy now? Give us a couple of things that are really working well that you can give to people. Just a peek. Obviously, we have a little bit of time, we’re not able to get into all of it, but just a peek of what’s really working well for, what we call, our profit master investing strategy?
Chris: I’m a simple guy. I don’t have to do anything too complex. I don’t believe in over diversifying. I’m like a Buffett guy like that. I don’t like to go throw money everywhere. Two or three main areas that I put money in. I do lending deals because I do some of those passive stuff, I love turnkey real estate because I really don’t want to be an active investor. I admire the people that do things fix-and-flips and wholesaling and stuff, but for me, I just don’t have the passion. Once I was able to retire, it’s like, “What do I spend my time doing?” For me, that’s the two areas.
Then the third one is through my teaching. The thing I learned that was pretty cool is that I was able to create a joint venture and affiliate type stuff. That’s how I retired the first time much more quickly was because I remember a guy asked me, he was one of the millionaires that I became friends with. He’s like, “Do you like doing mortgages?” I’m like, “No, I hate it. I love teaching and giving them the strategy, but I hate dealing with the paperwork, underwriting, and everything.” He’s like, “Why don’t you refer that out to somebody else and just flip the deal?” I’m like, “I could do that, couldn’t I?”
In scarcity, you think you just got to do it all yourself, you’re a do-it-yourselfer, “How much money can I make an entire transaction?” Now, it all sounds like, “Wait, I could do that. I do the things I enjoy, but delegate the things that I hate,” so I did and then I’d spent a half hour or so with the client, in fact, usually they’re friends and family, I stopped promoting myself because I was like, “I can’t do financial stuff anymore.”
But people still came to me for questions. I’m like, “Hey, go talk to this guy. Here’s a cool thing to do. You cash off your mortgage, go and invest it, you can actually have your mortgage paid for.” Things like, “Wow, that’s amazing. Where do I go?” “Talk to that guy and he’ll do your application.” Then a month or a month-and-a-half later, I get paid. I was like, “That’s cool. Who else can I do that with?” I did it with a wholesale jeweler, I get 5% check from them occasionally. I’d deal with all of these different businesses. I’m like, “These are the people I’m referring to anyways, why not just think about asking them if they have a referral program?” That’s what I do.
Even with my podcast. Occasionally, we’ll have sponsors, but I get paid from the advertisements that come through, so I get streams of income from that, I get business streams of income when there are certain people I might refer to or have educational programs that people say, “Hey, I want to learn that, I want to do short-term rentals,” or whatever. There are so many different ways you can get paid. The cool thing is that it doesn’t even require money to make money to do that stuff. It’s all about the relationship capital, not just financial.
Cory: Yeah, the network, the relationship capital.
Chris: That’s how I got my business going for 50–60 hours a week to now 10–20, and that’s mostly because I want to keep teaching. I do my podcast, I still take on consulting clients, or whatnot, but it’s just doing what I do for fun and then the rest of the time, my wife makes me go grocery shopping. Things like that.
Cory: You have Money Ripples right now […] podcast. You talk about a little bit on infinite banking side. I know many people listening now have mutual funds. They’ve been taught their whole life that you look over a 30-year, 40-year period, mutual funds historically will perform at 8%–9% or whatever they’re being sold more and more or even higher. But the reality is with inflation and with everything that’s happening with our economy, not always going up and going down, not always following the Treasury bill, what are you finding now that is a better alternative to going the traditional route?
Chris: Yeah. You know this. Anytime you deal with anybody who’s an investor, we laugh and balk at mutual funds, because you take all the risk, but there’s lackluster returns. Though the average return of the stock market is 10%, give or take, but the actual return, the real return that if you were to put it in calculator and it works is 7½%. That’s before taxes, that’s before fees. You’re lucky to average after taxes 5%, which sucks.
Cory: You could stomach […] big drops.
Chris: Yeah, and that just depends if you have the right timing. If you’re like my dad, he had to delay his retirement for 50 years because of this stupid stock market. It’s actually really easy. What I would like people to do is I tell them how to create a supercharged savings account, which is basically the whole infinite bank strategy. Instead of using a savings account that you earn point nothing percent on, you get taxed on that point nothing percent, what if you had a tax-free savings account that averaged 4% to 5% a year? Because if it’s tax-free, you could actually potentially beat your mutual funds and even your 401(k), even with the max sometimes.
Here’s the cool part, and this is why it works with what you teach, Cory, because it’s not just letting them sit there and do nothing, which you could, you could let it to build, but I will tell you there is no way anyone can become financially free from any product that a financial advisor offers, even if we’re talking about whole life insurance like we’re talking about here, in and of itself, it will not get you to retire. The key is you get the money in there just a savings account, pull it right back out, and invest it. The cool thing is you can actually do a line of credit with the insurance company that’s private, it’s not on your credit at all, in fact, there’s not even a minimum monthly payment. The deadline for getting the loan is death. Then you can just use the death benefit to pay it off and then still get some.
If you do this leverage, what happens is you’re borrowing from it, but the money is still there growing and compounding while you use the cash flow, you put it into some sort of real estate deal, whether it’s a turnkey property or even if you’re just doing a fix-and-flip, whatever you’re doing, or wholesaling, you can take the profits from that, put it back in that pays back towards the loan, that money goes right back into the savings, turn around, and do it again. It’s like getting a 401(k) loan but the difference is that you get paid much better, there are no worries of taxes, or using after-tax dollars. It’s much like using a Roth IRA, but you can access it right away.
Cory: Like a checkbook Roth IRA essentially.
Chris: Yeah, exactly. There’s no limit, it’s not like, “Hey, you can only put in $6000 a year,” which […].
Cory: You can also use personal so you can take it […] have a business always. Talk about the tax-free side of it a little bit.
Chris: It’s taxed just like a Roth IRA. The main difference is that there is no 59½ rule. We try to max fund it so we can get the least amount of cost possible with the max cash. You get a better ROI on the life insurance and then invest what you’re doing. Even to say the investment you do will make you 20%, the cool thing is, if you just liquidate your savings, then nothing’s being made in the savings. You’re just making it that 20% which is still awesome.
The cool thing is if you use the life insurance, you’re making a net of at least 3% over here while you’re making 20% over here, meaning you’re making 23% a year average. Especially if you’re in a high tax bracket, it’s even more effective because you’re doing this all tax-free. You can have people doing $5000 a year and have people doing half a million a year.
Cory: Yeah, that’s incredible. Walkthrough at $100,000. I have $100,000. Someone’s thinking about, “Okay, I have $100,000, I’m going to put it in the bank, I’m going to put it in the stock market, or I’m going to put it in with what you teach.” Walk us through obviously the alternative for what you teach.
Chris: Yeah, so instead of doing $100,000 just into your savings and investing it, we’ll put it into life insurance. Now it’s the first year that’s the most expensive year with cost. The cool thing, most life insurance is usually a cost that increases over time like with term insurance. This one goes down over time. The first two years are the only two years you actually feel the cost, after that it’s cost-free, the net’s cost-free, the interest on it is already paying for itself.
Cory: Does it change or is that fixed-rate? How does that work?
Chris: It changes. It’s really based on how you structure it. But say you put in $100,000, the most expensive year is the first year, that’s when most of the insurance costs come out, you’ll probably have access to about $75,000. Some people say, “I could just put $100,000 in savings, just liquidate it, and go put $100,000 somewhere else,” which is true, but the cool thing is even with the $75,000, you can go and create leverage and be double-dipping on your returns.
Cory: Yeah, you’re getting a return on that $75,000.
Chris: Right, you get more arbitrage, there are better tax breaks, and everything else.
Cory: Are you losing the $25,000 or are you regaining it later on?
Chris: Yeah, that’s going to cost. It’s lost, so to speak. The next year you dumped in $100,000, about $90,000 of it will go in. The third year you dumped in $100,000, you’ll probably have $105,000 going in.
Cory: Okay, yes, you have more.
Chris: By the fifth year, usually is the year that you’ll say, “Hey, I put in $100,000 a year, put in $500,000. I now have at least $500,000 in here.” But the thing that really makes it work is because we have that double-dip […] effect because you’re earning compound and you’re able to borrow from it. Some of them got this. Some of them will use this strategy, while others are like, “That takes money out of my pocket, I’m just going to leverage everything I can and buy cheap term.” But when you actually really look at it over the next five, even five-plus years, you end up beating it anyways because the fact that your term insurance cost is fully gone. Once you pay for term insurance, that’s it. If you don’t die, you’ve lost money. It’s death insurance.
Cory: It’s like a 20-year term, right?
Chris: Yeah, exactly. You end up going in the hole much faster, where using this method, you actually end up getting a much better ROI on the cash you have been using anyways.
Cory: Interesting. I think that many are thinking about right now, they didn’t know there are ways that they could actually borrow against their own money and get a double-digit return. Also, it’s something to be said there, too, is that’s not a super active thing. You’re making money based on where you have it apart essentially.
I want to be able to dive into this more, but we’ll have a way people can contact you to find out more about this because I know that you are just scratching the surface here. I know it’s also substantial. It’s not one-size-fits-all, and you’re certainly not an attorney or a legal representative here, but I love all the creative ideas and I love the fact that it’s worked for you, it’s allowed you to retire, you went through some ups and downs, and I love that you felt something from the pain of going through that recession but still coming out on top, it really says a lot, a lot about you.
We talked about what your breaking point was, what are some of the challenges that you deal with in this strategy? What are some of the things to potentially look out for, keep your eyes open?
Chris: The biggest thing, people talk about dividends, different companies pay different dividends, that has very little to do with it. It’s all about the costs, the underlying costs and how to minimize those. I try to make the minimal cost possible to still keep in the tax-free limits. Basically, the more insurance you have, the more death benefit they have, the more you can dump in. That’s why I had one client that did half a million dollars, he had to get a $10 million life insurance policy on his wife to do it, but then he started to just immediately funneling a half a million dollars into it every single year. First year, he took out a loan for $385,000. He’s like, “All right, I’ll invest in this sucker. Let’s do this and start leveraging it right away in the first couple months.” He did that.
The downfall would be is that you could be in horrible health, and that could influence and make the cost more, that’s a big one. Ways we work around that, I had a dentist that was a problem, so we just did on his wife instead. Got on her and then her costs were way less and he’s just banking through hers instead.
Other pitfalls could be, if you try to buy from even a normal infinite-banker type person, a lot of times, they’ll mess it up. They’ll put more cost into it than it needs to. Here’s the problem I see. I’m probably one of the only guys I know that doesn’t need the money from insurance. That’s the problem. Most of them, that’s their livelihood. Maybe you did as a Kirby salesman. They battle between, “How do I make a living but also still give them a good deal?” They battle that self-interest conflict. Whereas me, I came out of retirement two years ago because that guy was doing $500,000 said, “Hey, teach all my investor followers how to do this because no one does it quite like you do.” It took him four months to convince me to actually do it myself.
Once I started doing it, it was so much fun. I’m like, “This is awesome.” It was better than people that I knew that were doing it already. I would come out with better numbers. I’m like, “Why refer it to you if you’re going to charge people more money?” Let’s do this better. That’s a big one that I run into. Sometimes people have a policy but it’s not a step from an investor perspective. You got to come from that angle. That’s some of the biggest dangers right there.
Cory: Okay. What is a big lesson that you’ve learned, to get to where you are today?
Chris: Biggest lesson is trusting my gut.
Cory: I like that.
Chris: I remember even before the recession hit, I remember feeling a little bit nervous and on edge because my pride came in. I started thinking I had the Midas touch to it. Whatever I touched turned to gold and then all of a sudden, I didn’t. I remember there’s times I had those promptings, those feelings deep down saying, “Woah,” all that hair raising, back of your neck type of thing. My pets, they just go crazy.
Something happened. I didn’t listen to that. I’ll tell you that even in business, I’ve gone against business coach’s advice because it’s like, “I’m not even going to more of this, I’m going to do less. I’m going to do things that are totally counterintuitive.” I’ll go the opposite way. I’m kind of a heretic a little bit, and that’s worked wonders. If there’s anything I’ve learned, even with investing—I taught the seamless stock trading—is that if there’s that little thing at the back of your head or whatever that’s telling you, “Hey, this may be a warning,” listen to it.
Cory: It’s good advice. I wouldn’t have guessed it before and it’s really cost me. If you had to start it all over again, what are ways that you would change the page done in the past? How would you start all over again?
Chris: It’s so tough because it’s from the things I experienced and the pain that became my gain. Well, I liked it. I mean, I hated it. It sucked, but it’s the experience that made you wiser the next time around.
Cory: You learn.
Chris: Definitely. Listening to my gut, listening to my intuition was a big one. I think the other thing, too, was before the recession hit, I cut off some of the streams, the income I had made. I cut them off thinking, “Hey, you know what? I’m fine. I don’t need them.” So, this time around, when I was able to retire the second time, I got to make sure that there’s multiple streams here so that even if one stream is gone or two or three, I’ve got back-ups.
I counted the other day because I’m doing a podcast episode on my show here pretty soon. I have about 14 different streams of income coming in or different sources. Obviously, real estate’s one of them and different types of investments, but a lot of them are through businesses or other places, too. That is way more reassuring for me than it was when I had maybe 3–4 back in 2006.
Cory: Sure, makes sense. Do you have a motivational quote that you like the most?
Chris: Oh, man. I don’t know. I can’t quote it but if you know the Theodore Roosevelt quote, it’s kind of like, “Dare to do mighty things.” He’d rather be the person that’s marred in the arena and then has the blood, the sweat, and the tears. He basically rather come in crashing and burning than living a life of complacency in life.
That one has really spoke to my soul quite a bit. It reminded myself that I can be comfortable both my lifestyle and just be with my family. Some people are like, “I just want to take care of my family and then I’ll be happy.” For me, I felt like the family is the world. That’s why I have the company Money Ripples, it’s that ripple effect that ripples out through your community, country, and across the world from you being liberated and free.
I think for me, that’s why it was big. Even if I could be comfortable, I can back off and not work but I notice that when I don’t work, the fire dies. I work too much, I burn out but if I work too little, the fire doesn’t kindle. Got to be that right balance.
Cory: Yeah. There’s always that entrepreneurial fire that’s always there and it goes out and it really cuts the light out from how entrepreneurs process things. For us, I believe a lot of that is the journey, the excitement, the learning, and that journey on a daily basis. It’s not right for everyone. It really isn’t.
Chris: Always growing and progressing.
Cory: I used to think it was but it’s not, it’s not right. Thank God that not every person in an entrepreneur.
Chris: That’s right.
Cory: It’s got some great highs but it also has some big lows. Sometimes those lows can be so hard that it makes you just want to quit. I’ve noticed that more successful people I’ve ever met, they never allowed the word “give up” into their vocabulary in terms of completely stopping the journey of moving forward with doing something with their lives—doing something more than just being mundane and complacent like you said.
Chris: Even when I was in the million dollar plus debt hole, I was in the hole $16,000 a month where I was short that much per month, I remember thinking, “Why am I going through this?” I remember praying to God, “What’s supposed to be happening here? I thought I’d be able to get out of this situation. I worked my tail off. I’m trying to make it happen. It’s not happening.” And I remember thinking, “You know what? Even if I came through this on the other side,” which I knew I would but I was like, “whenever that happens and however that happens, if it could help at least one person, that would be worth it. It would be worth the pain.”
Cory: Start at being grateful.
Chris: Yeah, start being grateful, kind of like your grateful project, right?
Cory: Right. I think that’s a great way to process, too, is you’re serving other people. It’s bigger than yourself and getting outside yourself, it helps a lot. Do you have a book that you’d recommend? I know we talked about Rich Dad, Poor Dad but do you have any other books that really have changed your life?
Chris: Yeah. If you’re going through a lot of crap right now, two books I recommend. One’s by some of my friends, Greg Reid and Sharon Lechter, who wrote Three Feet from Gold, the 21st century version of Think and Grow Rich. Great book. And then the other one, even though the author’s not as popular today as he used to be, is Donald Trump called Never Give Up. It’s the least arrogant book that I’ve heard of his.
Never Give Up was book because it talked about all the crap that he went through. I thought I was going through a horrible debt hole. I remember, towards the end of 2009 I was just about to get out of it. I remember reading Three Feet from Gold and Never Give Up. I remember in Never Give Up him talking about being in $900 million in debt. I thought, “That’s like 1000 times more in debt than I am.”
Cory: It gives you good perspective.
Chris: You put that perspective, you’re like, “My stuff should be easy.”
Cory: Yeah, he saw this person that was homeless on there and they’re asked, “If I could have a dollar,” or whatever. In my opinion, if he traded places with that person, that person would actually be in better financial bliss than he’d be because he was in $900 million in debt, but that person just didn’t have any money. It’s crazy, a crazy book. It’s a great book.
You get eight hours of sleep at night with eight kids?
Chris: Not usually. I’ll usually get seven, though.
Cory: Man, that’s good! That’s really, really good. What’s your morning routine?
Chris: I’ve realized praying does not work first thing in the morning because I’ll fall back asleep so I usually get up and move. The first thing I’ll do, three days a week, I run because I do half marathons and whatnot. Then three days a week, I do strength workouts. Sunday, take a break.
Sometimes I’ll do prayers of gratitude while I’m working out, things like that, get myself in the right place, mindset-wise. I’ll listen to audiobooks on Audible. I’ll do that a lot since I’m driving around. Pray, read scriptures, things like that. Anything just to put myself in a better state so when I start the day, I’m rocking and rolling.
Cory: I love that, man. That makes all the difference in the world, to move because whenever you get up, you’re groggy. If you don’t change that state, immediately, it can really wear on you.
Chris: Oh yeah.
Cory: That’s really good. I’m thinking if I’ve ever said on this show before we just move, you’ve already said it, that’s true. What are you most grateful for, right now?
Chris: I think the biggest thing I’m grateful for is the things that I will often take for granted. I realize that sometimes I forget because it becomes a daily routine, how wonderful my life is. This morning, I did a few calls before we did this, this interview, but this morning I was making a minute with my wife. We went out and go shopping while the girls were at school so we had that alone, that date time. That’s the middle of the day when all of the other moms are rushing around with their little kids, trying to take them to the stores and we’re hanging out. I just think about that.
After I’m done here, I’m pretty much going to go and have fun again, hang out with the family again. I think having that lifestyle, all the sacrifice and all the pain I had to go through to now experience this made that bitter and that sweet, that opposition, so much better.
Cory: The lifestyle design is crucial. I think it’s a very important point to make because many listening right now have somebody else to pick their lifestyle. They have a boss. They want to quit work, but they can’t because fear mixed with wisdom, mixed with no financial cushion there, and all of these other stuff. They listen to somebody else dictate the way they have to run their day.
As an entrepreneur, one of the benefits is that you don’t have that ever. Except whenever you don’t build a business and you still treat your business like a hobby which a lot of business owners do. They don’t get a team. It’s all the me show. You’re the CEO. You’re the sales guy. You’re all the hats. That is really just building not a business but a big job that is a facade called a business.
It’s great to just really be aware and be grateful that you don’t have to have that job. You don’t have to have that boss that’s telling you when to get up, when you can go spend time to your wife and your kids. It is something that you take for granted because it happens so much. It’s your normal thing when you’re an entrepreneur and you’re running a business.
It’s kind of strange in the beginning that you could just do what you want and you can “still get paid” if you have a team just doing things, but it’s also a lot of sacrificing and a lot of investing of your time. Good on you, to experience that and I think many people can learn how you’d done it. What point would you recommend a mentor or a coach, how important has one been to you?
Chris: Oh, very important. As you know, we met through mastermind. I’ve realized that my best mentornings happened through masterminds now, even just through a single mentor, even though that could happen still. I just noticed that whatever my goal is, whatever I want to accomplish, if there’s a certain barrier in a certain place I’m trying to go, then I hire people for that.
For example, I went to a sports chiropractor the other day because I sprained my ankle three months ago. It was gnarly and I want to get back into shape. I hired him. He worked on a lot of Utah Jazz like John Stockton and Karl Malone, if you remember those guys. He’s like a miracle worker. I just my first session with him today and I’m like, “Holy crap. I can actually run without some pain. That’s pretty cool and we’re not even done yet. We’re just warming up.” I have a massage therapist that works his stuff. He’s worked with bodybuilders and whatnot.
All that stuff I can invest in, it’s huge. Even if I don’t always go the business and financial route like I used to do more of, now it’s more health route I’m starting to hire people for. Whatever you’re trying to achieve, go for that. Try to get their experience and I think education and paying someone to do it right is way cheaper than ignorance.
Cory: Totally. Ignorance is really, really expensive. What is it that really gets you up in the morning? What is your why?
Chris: You know, this right here. I really feel like if there’s anything that we learn from my life that there’s a message of hope. Even all of the crap that I went through and everything else to be where I am today, and knowing that most of the people I talk to are currently in better positions than I was when I was trying to create that hope, almost ripening on the fumes of […].
That hope is what gets me up everyday. If it weren’t from me being able to do my podcast, the people that I will consult and things like that, even if it’s just part time, I don’t know if I’d have a purpose to get out of bed much. Other than I want to go work out but it’s really that mission of “What can I give? What kind of legacy can I leave behind me that really makes a difference?”
Cory: Yeah. That’s beautiful, man. Legacy is something that we tend to be thinking about later. Certainly, thinking about it now, it’s a great motivator, it’s a great way to create your vision, where you want to be in life, thinking about what you’re going to leave behind means that you have to create something now that you’ll leave behind. If you’re not motivated thinking about your kids, thinking about your wife, find that bigger why. It will push you in a good way.
Chris, what’s a way we could get in touch with you? How can we serve you? What’s the best way to get in touch with you if somebody wants to learn more about your strategies, maybe have an onboarding call to talk with them strategy session? What’s the best way to get in touch with you?
Chris: If you want to come and learn more of what I teach, easy, free place to go is you can just follow my podcast, the Chris Miles Money Show. Lots of time and attention to market, figure out what marketing in and what name to give my show. My fans actually came up with that name. I came up with all these cool “cash flow” whatever, but let’s call it the Chris Miles Money Show. Let’s make it simple. That’s a great one and if people have questions, you can always just email me, firstname.lastname@example.org. That’s the same as my website, moneyripples.com as well.
Cory: All right, and follow you on Facebook, on Instagram. Do you have both of those?
Chris: I don’t have Instagram. I haven’t figured that out yet. I only use my Pinterest account but I do use Facebook quite a bit so I’ve got a Money Ripples page on Facebook as well.
Cory: Okay. I will have them follow you there. I’m going to take and put a lot of this on the show notes so anything that you’ve mentioned or recommend, anything like that will be in the show notes. Thank you again for taking the time to be on here and share some of this.
Again, I know, we scratched the surface there are some big things that folks that work with you could really dive into on a deeper level to really go through if this is the right step for them or not. I think it’d be exciting to have a conversation with you if that where they are and where they want to go. I know any time that you have an opportunity to get double digits and you could be passive, essentially, at it, you can create that’s called specialized knowledge and capitalize on that, it can really help you a lot.
Cory: Well, thanks again, Chris. Appreciate you.
Chris: Same here. Appreciate it as well.
Cory: Thanks for being on here and stay tuned for another profit master investing strategy and interview. We’ll bring some amazing guests like Chris to you. Bye now.
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